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Zeng Jinlian
Jane 'Ginny' Bunford
Yao Defen
Sandy Allen
Sylvia Hardy
Wassiliki Calliandji
Anna Haining Swan
Carolina Rascon
Delores Pullard
Ella Ewing
Maria Feliciana dos Santos
Maria Fassnauer (Mariedl)
Sun Fang
Marianne Wehde
Margo Dydek
Kaatje van Dyk
Eleanor Wagner
Rosa Wedsted
Uljana Semjonova
Lyuba Shilo
Leah May
Elizabeth Lyska
Jane Grey
Mildred
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Extremely tall Dinaric people

Discussions about extremely tall people

Extremely tall Dinaric people

Postby Hervé » 05 Mar 2013, 10:25

For those who ignore how tall are the people from the Dinaric Alps (part of former Yugoslavia), here are stats I got last year from a friend of mine, a Croatian sports teacher in a high school from Makarska (region of Dalmatia, Croatia)...

67 young men (between 17 and 18 old, which means still growing up) were measured (without shoes) : the height average reached 185,64 cm ! And the most impressive was the proportion of very tall guys. Just see that, from the smaller to the taller :

173 cm : 2 guys
174 cm : 1
176 cm : 2
177 cm : 2
178 cm : 3
180 cm : 9
181 cm : 1
182 cm : 3
183 cm : 3
184 cm : 1
185 cm : 5
186 cm : 8
187 cm : 4
188 cm : 2
189 cm : 4
190 cm : 3
191 cm : 3
192 cm : 2
193 cm : 2
194 cm : 1
196 cm : 1
198 cm : 2
199 cm : 1
203 cm : 1
204 cm : 1
Hervé
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Re: Extremely tall Dinaric people

Postby hyperauxi » 05 Mar 2013, 20:51

It's pretty clear that there's an "overrepresentation" of very tall guys in the Dinaric Alps (and possibly select other areas of the former Yugoslavian region) in an overall average tall population. I haven't seen hard data on such "outliers", only anecdote, however. A major factor in this is poor quality of record keeping. One study of a few years ago that is likely known here did find an average of 185.6 cm measured for males of the Dinaric Alps (with 28% exceeding 190 cm). A more recent study found an average of 183.2 cm for male university students in Montenegro.

From the second study (Popovi et al, 2012):
Although there was some hypothesis that Montenegrin males are the tallest male population
in all of Europe, which has not been proved yet because of poor records, this study
contributes to a very important update of average body heights among Montenegrin males
and females. The results proved that Montenegrin males are very tall with an average of
183.21 centimetres but this is not the tallest in Europe. It does not come close to 184.6
centimetres documented by Pineau et al. (2005) and 183.8 centimetres of the Dutch male
population measured in the last nationwide survey in 2010 (TNO 2010). However, the
183.21 centimetres average height of Montenegrin men is taller than the 181.3 centimetres
of Lithuanians (Tutkuviene 2005), the 180.9 centimetres of Serbs (J. Grozdanov, personal
communication, 1 December 2011), the 180.6 centimetres of Icelanders (Dagbjartsson,
Thornórsson, Pálsson & Arnórsson 2000), the 180.5 centimetres of Croats (Juresa, Musil
& Tiljak 2012), the 180.4 centimetres of Swedes (Werner & Bodin 2006), the 180.3 centimetres
of Slovenes (Starc & Strel 2011), Danes (Statistics Denmark 2011) and Czechs
(Vignerová, Brabec & Bláha 2006) and the 141.7 centimetres of the shortest ethnic group
in the world, the Mbuti Pygmies (cited in Froment 1993), which would make Montenegro
the second-tallest nation in the world.


It is also interesting to note that the high frequency of very tall subjects appears
to be characteristic of the Montenegrin males, since 13% measured 190 centimetres or
more in body height. If 13% in Montenegro would be compared to 28% in Dinaric Alps,
20% in the Netherlands and only 1.5% in France (Pineau et al. 2005), it would imply that
very tall males are still not as frequent in Montenegro as in the Dinaric Alps in general
and in the Netherlands.


Image

Here's some recent Dutch data (TNO, 2010).
hyperauxi
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Re: Extremely tall Dinaric people

Postby Hervé » 06 Mar 2013, 10:16

Yes, the study of Mr Pineau & others was in fact mine : I gave them the results I got by contacting myself dozens of sports teachers in Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro...
Hervé
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Re: Extremely tall Dinaric people

Postby hyperauxi » 06 Mar 2013, 19:02

A problem with using coaches is that sports tends to select for taller people, so such data even if valid couldn't generalize to an entire population. Any good study will control for confounding factors, such as less obvious yet still meaningful socioeconomic determinants. That said, there are many very tall basketballers from the region and it's a small population, so that's an example of anecdote suggesting (but not rigorously finding) something going on. Do members of this forum have direct experience in the area?
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Re: Extremely tall Dinaric people

Postby Hervé » 07 Mar 2013, 08:10

All the sports teachers I have contacted measured ALL their pupils, from the SMALLEST ones to the TALLEST ! No segregation from this side, be sure... Anyway, you may visit Split or Belgrade to have the visual proof of these real stats...
Hervé
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Re: Extremely tall Dinaric people

Postby Hervé » 07 Mar 2013, 08:20

Some other remarks, please :

1° The official average in Croatia (180,5 cm) regards young men 18 years old : so, if we want to be in the truth, we can not compare this average with the ones of students, for example, unless you add about 0,5 cm to 1 cm to it...

2° The proportion of French men >= 190 cm (1,5 %) is an OLD one ! Today, it must be much more, as the national average of young adults reaches 177, even 178 cm, like in Great Britain...

3° "Dinaric Alps" must be taken "stricto sensu". For example, in coastal towns of Montenegro (Bar, Budva, Ulcinj), the height average is 182-183 cm, while it is 185-187 in the hinterland (Podgorica, Niksic). That's why Mr Pineau's study only took in consideration the Dinaric chain.

4° What does "nation" mean concerning Montenegro ? A huge part of "Montenegrins" clam they are Serbs, while another huge one of them are either of Serbian or Croatian descent...
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Re: Extremely tall Dinaric people

Postby fivefootnine » 07 Mar 2013, 08:40

Hervé wrote:All the sports teachers I have contacted measured ALL their pupils, from the SMALLEST ones to the TALLEST ! No segregation from this side, be sure... Anyway, you may visit Split or Belgrade to have the visual proof of these real stats...


What kind of students were measured? Everyone who had to take sport classes, with or against their wills, meaning ALL students?
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Re: Extremely tall Dinaric people

Postby Hervé » 07 Mar 2013, 09:27

Young men from high school (last class), 17-18 years old !
Hervé
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Re: Extremely tall Dinaric people

Postby Hervé » 07 Mar 2013, 09:30

At least 90% of them, as sports classes are not facultative in Croatia ! Of course, those who were ill could not be measured. Usually, I waited about one month in order to have as many stats as possible...
Hervé
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Re: Extremely tall Dinaric people

Postby fivefootnine » 07 Mar 2013, 13:03

Hervé wrote:At least 90% of them, as sports classes are not facultative in Croatia ! Of course, those who were ill could not be measured. Usually, I waited about one month in order to have as many stats as possible...


So the students who were measured were NOT only those who choosed to be in the sport class? Among the measured students were also those who dislike sports?

This is very relevant since people who engage in pysical activities like sport might have physics
different from the average male.
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